John McCain announced this morning that Sarah Palin will be his running mate. She has only been a governor for 2 years (in Alaska) but she is a member of the NRA, so I guess the elephants will like her. It's funny he found someone with less time in office than Obama. What do you think?
Do you think he should have chosen Mitt Romney, or would that have completely ended his chances?
Are you more likely to vote for McCain with a woman VP (because really, she has a better chance than Biden of filling in as headmaster)?
Would this set up a future Hillary C. vs. Sarah P. run for POTUS in 2016? Does her nomination decrease Clinton's future appeal, or does it pave the way (hopefully) for more women in office?
How does her two years as a governor compare to Obama's two as a senator?
She has a four month-old baby boy with Downs Syndrome. She is also a career woman. Can her husband do as good of a job raising him?
Dude, she was born in Idaho and graduated from the University of Idaho.
ReplyDeleteNuff said.
Haha! Idaho, Alaska... makes me want to go watch some Northern Exposure!
ReplyDeleteI think it's funny, all of Obama's critism of McCain is easily applied to Biden.
ReplyDeleteHis choice is very interesting to say the least- and was a great way to make the country forget the fluff we heard last night and talk about something else.
I think it was a good move politically for McCain. I heard some of her speech this morning, and I liked what I heard.
ReplyDeleteNot enough to vote for McCain of course.
(I'm relieved he didn't pick Romney)
I think its Awesome!
ReplyDeleteA very wise choice. Romney would have weakened the ticket which would have been fine with me. McCain cannot be taken lightly in light of his pick.
ReplyDeleteRomney can drag out and dust off his signs in four years when he runs against President Obama.
Another question: Would McCain have chosen her if she were not a woman? I don't think so. It might be a "maverick" choice at best, but at worst it is gimmicky.
ReplyDeleteI think it was a good move. She's a fighter, willing to stand up for what she believes and stays committed to seeing change through where it was needed despite being unpopular or lacking support. She seems like a real person, not a bunch of pretenses.
ReplyDeleteOn a personal note, I think a mom should be home with the children. Not because I think a woman can't compete in the career world (for example, I think my wife can out perform me in just about everything except lifting heavy stuff), but instead because she'll do a much better job at home than Dad. And for me, motherhood is the most important work that a person can do in this lifetime, more important than running this country or any other career.
Do I think she can do the job? Absolutely. I have my reservations about her being able to run the country should anything happen to McCain, but I think she's more capable than Obama so where's the risk really?
Probably, Happy the Man, only because philosophically you believe Americans should conceal carry, global warming was invented by Al Gore and we should drill in the Arctic National Refuge.
ReplyDeleteProfessor Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. Ms. Palin taught grade school, did she?
I don't know WP, just because Happy doesn't like Obama or the Boss doesn't necessarily mean he thinks Al Gore invented global warming... Do I need to separate you two? lol.
ReplyDeleteAs for government-related experience, Palin and Obama both really have only about 2 years each (Obama hasn't been doing much but running for POTUS the past two years). Although Harvard Law, and teaching at Chicago Law school undeniably trump Palin's experience as the mayor of Cicely Alaska. Sorry Happy, but I think Palin as President is quite a bit scarier, with the stuff that has been coming out about her lately (would be VP to help Alaska, etc.), than Obama, as he has been under scrutiny for the past 4 years, while she comes fresh off the moose hunt.
And for the record, I think we should leave the Alaska drilling decision up to Alaska. It's one thing to make a national park in Utah, but where they want to drill in Alaska is a veritable wasteland on the edge of the world.
"she'll do a much better job at home than Dad."
ReplyDeleteWhile I do agree that parenting is more important work than anything else, I disagree that women are better at it then men. Many women may be socialized to be better at it, but if you take a willing man with the same experiences being nurtured and nurturing, they can do just as good of a job as a woman can.
Romney would have been a disaster for McCain as well as Romney. Palin actually helps Romney whether McCain wins or loses.
ReplyDeleteThe real contrast is that she is much more free of graft than Obama. Not that Obama's interactions are anything terribly bad by Chicago standards (or by McCain standards).
The other fun will be comparing her foreign policy with Biden's mistakes (anyone who has been around as long as Biden will be right on a lot of points, wrong on a few).
Though I've been surprised at some people who are really positive about her, which has made me think twice.
Not to mention, I lived in Alaska for a while and was poor enough to eat mooseburger.
Allah is blessing his son Barack as the R's are about all but shutting down their national convention due to Al Gore's latest hurricane. Not to worry though, Michael Chertoff and the Bush administration have things under control in New Orleans.
ReplyDeleteGeorge and WP, I'd like to answer your question but it's above my pay grade. That's a pretty stupid response that I lifted from a Harvard grad and constitutional law professor.
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of what Adam said. I disagree about Dads being able to nurture children equal to Moms. First of all, Dads can't nurse babies so right out of the barrel they don't measure up. If God wanted the roles to be equal, he'd have given breasts to both sexes.
Of course, in this day and age where many women are trying more and more to become like men, perhaps your statement isn't entirely off the mark. But generally speaking, I believe women are more emotional, more sensitive and more caring and better able to nurture children. Admittedly there are always exceptions.
Having 4 girls, I can clearly see their natural instinct or inclination to care for and nurture baby dolls and pets where my boys want to crash cars into each other, shoot guns and pull the cat's tail.
These nurturing opinions are based on my experiences, teachings and upbringing.
"above my pay grade" - I agree, that was a lame answer.
ReplyDeleteI think there may be differences between men and women, and obviously, as you said, there are always exceptions. However, believing woman are more emotional, sensitive, caring, and nurturing than men does not prove it is natural. I am going to look for some studies on this. One that I know of showed that fathers interact with newborns and infants differently based on the sex of the baby, which obviously would affect their "natural instincts."
Speaking for what is actually going on in white America, I agree, women are probably generally more emotional and nurturing than men are. However, I think that is largely due to socialization rather than hard-wiring. Men are raised to be "tough" and not to cry and be "wimps" and are discouraged from expressing more than a few emotions.
I'm afraid that an army of PTA moms will love Sarah Palin without knowing a whole lot about her.
ReplyDeleteI'm not thrilled with a woman being used as a token to lure voters.
Good for her for being a "rising star of the GOP. Before she rose to her position as governor of a state with hardly any people in it, I understand that she ran an ATV / snowmobile business. Like they always say, run an ATV shop and you might as well be running the most powerful nation on earth. Oh and she was on a state championship basketball team in high school, I think, and she competed fiercely in the Miss Alaska pageant.
ReplyDeleteCome ON. No disrespect to all the experience, wisdom, and perspective she's continuing to gain from being a mother of five. But (despite what they may say on Fox News) people cannot possibly think it's a good idea have her a heartbeat away from being President. Any clown can be elected governor. [Not that the governor of my state is a clown, really he's had a very serious acting career, and he's generally thought to have done a better job than expected, but he's not a very good Republican, either.]
Hey Happy -- For comparison purposes, here's one of your favorite president's quotes"
ReplyDelete"I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the news themselves." —Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003
On the other hand, it's quite an inspiring story. I was on the board of directors of a grocery store for three years--that should at least qualify me to run for Congress.
ReplyDeleteLame comment? What is lame? Let's put that in perspective...
ReplyDelete"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job." Bush to a group of Amish he met with privately, July 9, 2004
“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories … And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." —Washington, D.C., May 30, 2003
"Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere!" —President George W. Bush, joking about his administration's failure to find WMDs in Iraq as he narrated a comic slideshow during the Radio & TV Correspondents' Association dinner, Washington, D.C., March 24, 2004
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
"Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004 (Watch video)
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
If you would like I can supply maybe 50 more...
WP - Yes, yes of course W has given us plenty of lame comments.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't mean Obama's answer to his stance on abortion wasn't lame. It was. Not quite as lame as McCain saying "the failure of my marriage" (read: "my affair") was his biggest regret, but I suspect either of the potential candidates will have a lesser total of lame comments than Bush has given us. Perhaps SNL won't be as funny for the next 8 years.
Emily, you're forgetting her mayoral stint. You need to be the mayor of Centerville or something first. :)
I agree with Emily, sounds like Emily should at least be qualified to run FEMA or something! I've been in the govt for over 7 years, I think that qualifies me to be Sec of State!
ReplyDeleteIs it not true in politics that it often comes down to who you dislike the least? I heard the good senator's acceptance speech and he promised so much -- it simply cannot happen. Having admitted that, maybe we judge too harshly those we put on a presidential pedestal. There was a discussion today on GMA about Gov. Palin's pregnant daughter. The question was whether or not it would be a negative or a positive for the McCain camp. How about we have a debate and conclude it does not matter to America or the electorate if the 17 year old made a mistake. Let's move on and give the family a little distance and privacy in this.
ReplyDeleteI am amazed how every word, every act, every speech is recorded, scrutinized, analyzed, and dissected for some affront to wisdom, political correctness, or minority. Did Obama not place his hand on his heart, was he standing with his back to the flag, etc. etc. The same scrutiny was given to HRC. Bush on the other hand is such an unqualified occupant of the White House he should have been impeached for his gross crimes against America and Iraq. Mayor Rocky and Michael Moore, among others, were right on this and worked so hard to make it happen.
Carl Rove, the RNC, and surrogates have fine tuned the art of character assassination like no other in this generation. After eight years look where it has got us.
Can we say looking into a crystal ball in a decade or more ahead that John McCain or Mitt Romney, or even Mike Huckabee will have been named the recipient of a Nobel prize? Yet Jimmy Carter and Al Gore both speak to the work ethic, integrity and substance of two very significant Democrats, patriots and Americans. Carter was derailed by a 2nd rate Hollywood has-been and Rove and company did in Gore.
If memory serves correct. Ronnie, when he got out of the White House flew to Japan and was paid five million bucks to prostitute himself to a Japanese promoter to give a dozen speeches. Maybe Bush will do the same. I don't see him working on a Habitat for Humanity house somewhere or looking over an election in Haiti or Bolivia, a la Jimmy Carter.
This is about the mother/father dialog (totally off topic of the post [sorry], but I just wanted to throw my two cents in): I'd be interested to see if your thoughts change slightly after having both sexes of children. I, like Happy, am going off my own experience- not any study or research, but I don't think that it is socialization alone. My experience: My husband has 4 sisters, 0 brothers, a feminist mother, and a father that did most all of the house work and is a very nuturing and considerate spouse to a wife who has numerous health problems. My husband is a wonderful father and husband as well. I used to joke that we were the wrong kind of parents to have boys because we're both so removed from the sports playing, "typical guy" world. We have never said anything to our boys about being "'tough' and not to cry and be "wimps" and are discouraged from expressing more than a few emotions." My boys were never discouraged from playing with dolls, playing dress up or any other stereotypical "girl" activity. My son only had girl toys to play with at first. But, my daughter played a nurturing mommmy at 1 yr. and my son used the dolls to ram them into walls at 1 yr.
ReplyDeleteThis does not mean that I think that my boys or any other man isn't capable of being nurturing. Sometimes I think the men in my life do a better job at nurturing than I do... but for shorter periods of time. Kind of like a marathon runner vs. a sprinter. I really believe that we're wired differently to perform differnt roles.
As for Palin, I think she is inexperienced to be the VP, but her being a woman has nothing to do with that. She certainly doesn't make McCain look appealing. I think there's little that could.
Emily for President!
ReplyDeleteI was expecting to see SOMEone take exception to this comment from "Happy the Man":
"Of course, in this day and age where many women are trying more and more to become like men. . ."
No need for debate, but come ON. Sexist, anyone?
Hill Family #24 – No problem, we’ve got two threads going here, so it’s all good.
ReplyDelete“see if your thoughts change slightly after having both sexes of children.” …
“My son only had girl toys to play with at first. But, my daughter played a nurturing mommy at 1 yr. and my son used the dolls to ram them into walls at 1 yr.”
My point was not that there are no differences between boys and girls. There probably are, and I’m fine with that notion. Where I differ in thought is that playing with a doll vs. throwing a doll at age 1 makes one a better nurturer later in life as a parent, per se. For the sake of the debate, I think we need to first define what “nurturing” means, in order to debate the relationship between inherent nurturing skills and gender.
I have also thought about this from an evolutionary perspective, i.e. women may have been “nurturing” their young for ages while the men were out fighting.
“Sometimes I think the men in my life do a better job at nurturing than I do... but for shorter periods of time. Kind of like a marathon runner vs. a sprinter.”
Haha, I’ve been told by my wife more than once that I am a “sprinter.” -- usually related to doing the dishes or housework.
Anonymous #25 – heh, I have enough trouble not taking exception from my own writing to notice stuff like that. Maybe a better (read: PC) way to phrase Happy’s comment would be “in this day and age where many women are trying more and more to be equal with men.”
Yes, very non-PC of me, sorry. I guess I've seen one too many women with tattoos lately, not that I think they are any more appealing on men...
ReplyDeleteI tend to hold women at a higher station than men, where you'd act differently (with more respect) if a woman was present, yet women more and more want to lower themselves to "be more equal with" men. In my opinion (and generally speaking), they're selling themselves short.
That is essentially what I was trying to say.
All good! I welcome non-PC-ness!
ReplyDeleteI've come across this idea of women being "higher" than men in LDS culture. I used to think that way as well, before I was enlightened. No, just kidding. No enlightenment. I do however wonder if there is some kind of "priesthood guilt" which leads men to say women are "more spiritual" and etc.
"Where I differ in thought is that playing with a doll vs. throwing a doll at age 1 makes one a better nurturer later in life as a parent, per se."
ReplyDeleteAfter thinking this over today, I totally agree with that. I'm actually surprised that I didn't think of it that way before because I was one who played with dolls as a little girl in the "nuturing mommy" way, but feel that nuturing doesn't come as naturally to me now as an actual mom as it seems to for others. Nurturing is defined as helping to develop, grow, bring up, educate, etc. and I certainly don't feel I'm more qualified to do so than my husband just because I'm a woman. He does an excellent job in all those areas (And my own father did a better job with that than my mom IMO). And, although nurturing is supposed to be my main responsibility in the family (religiously speaking, of course), I am not qualified to do so because of gender any more than my husband is more qualified to 'preside' because of his. They are simply roles that need filling. Am I on the right track of what you were saying? Thanks, anyway, though. It was an interesting paradigm shift for me today. :)
P.S. Sorry. I'm a little verbose. :)
ReplyDelete"Nurturing is defined as helping to develop, grow, bring up, educate, etc."
ReplyDeleteThis is a usable definition for me. I'm wondering if a lot of people view nurturing as the ability to be emotionally close or soothing; that's the impression I get from others, quite often.
"I am not qualified to do so because of gender any more than my husband is more qualified to 'preside' because of his. They are simply roles that need filling."
My thoughts exactly. Well said! Roles are definitely important, and while flexibility is needed, the roles do need to be filled. Structure in a family is very important. The Proclamation does not say women are better nurturers and men better at presiding (still trying to figure out what that means) but it does stress fulfilling responsibility and being flexible when it is necessary.
Re: verbose, it's all good! You can also be loquacious, voluble, garrulous, or prolix!
You are right. I was thinking of nurturing as a gentleness thing. But then I actually looked up the definition! I find myself doing that a lot on this blog. :)
ReplyDeleteSo, I'm thinking of a very enlightening study/documentary that was done a few years back on PBS or some other documentary type channel. They were trying to point out that children from single parent homes are lacking an important balance that children from a two parent home benefit from. They video taped a room full of toddlers with their dads and a few play items (little slide and other toys). When the toddler would fall down and cry, that dad would comfort the child for like 5 seconds and go immediately to "let's try it again". The dad didn't focus on the boo boo but was more about pushing the child to overcome and to move on. Then they showed the moms with the toddlers. When the child fell down and cried, mom picked up the child and held and rocked and comforted for a good long time and then did not push the child to try again but focussed on the fact that mommy is there to protect. So, one half is pushing and constantly challenging forward and the other half is ensuring that we are here and behind you all the way.
ReplyDeleteI was quite impressed because this is how it seems to naturally work in my house. My wife tends to be more sensitive and I tend to push more. If you are missing one of those influencing perspectives growing up, theoretically you are going to be too coddled and maybe lacking motivation or overly aggressive and insensitive. For me, it illustrated the roles that we play, that men and women are definitely wired diffrently. I know of cases where these roles were reversed, but at least in my case, I tended to relate more to the findings and how things were presented in this documentary.
"priesthood guilt' nah! just the facts Adam!
ReplyDeleteGo into any HP Group on any Sunday along the Wasatch Front and I will show you too often an ill prepared, disorganized group of men tottering somewhere between nodding off from absolute boredom or in discussion about how the Jazz or the Cougars did, etc. And when any religious discussion happens it is something close to what Elder Maxwell called "theological ping pong."
Go into any RS lesson and you will have found the teacher bearing a tearful testimony of what she has prepared, prayed and fasted over for at least one month and has had her lesson confirmed by the spirit. She has five sisters prepared to take part and special musical numbers from a couple of young women and more.
As High Priests, we are losers, big time. I am embarrassed to admit I am one at times. In the Bountiful Temple District since it has opened in 1995 attendance has declined, yet the numbers of recommend holders has increased by 22%. What's up with that?
There is more we could do and should do. We are a lazy and over recreated, distracted with telestial and terrestrial pursuits people. Our wives, mothers, and daughters have us beat, es verdad!
I actually agree with George and WP on this, especially about being distracted with telestial and terrestial pursuits.
ReplyDeleteAs for my HPG, some of these guys are sleeping because they're old and they can't make it all the way til noon without a little siesta (or several)... And they may be distracted, but not necessarily for the same reasons. Nevertheless, generally speaking (about men/PH holders) I agree with your comments, but I'd like to believe that it is somewhat less prevalent than in the EQ.
When I lived in south SLC, many of the older bretheren "retired" from church duties. You couldn't even get them to give the invocation or benediction in Sacrament much less do home teaching... We had other more active older men assigned to do leadership missions in our ward from nearby neighboring wards. I got the impression that our old guys felt like they had done enough labors in the vineyard in a lifetime. I was young and just out of school and as the Ex. Sec. I was responsible for assigning Sacrament prayers. Needless to say, I found myself volunteering a lot. So that whole experience was kind of intriguing to me. I'm happy to report that I haven't really seen that in any other ward since however...
I've heard it referred to as "I earned my primary merit badge" (or sunday school, or whatever)..
ReplyDeleteSometimes people get the idea that they put their time in, then don't ever have to go back to that calling.
Happy, I am happy you and I can agree on something.
ReplyDeleteLet me tell you about a couple 'old guys' I know at the Bountiful Temple. They shall shall remain nameless but we will call the first one Brother Est. He cannot walk without pain due to a bad knee replacement and arthritis and has to sit down in traversing the temple from one side to other. Then there is Brother S. who has worked there since it opened in '95. He has done this every Friday and Saturday night. That is commitment and I am proud to be be associated with those High Priests.
We can do better...
“one half is pushing and constantly challenging forward and the other half is ensuring that we are here and behind you all the way.”
ReplyDeleteHappy #33 - I’ve heard about this before, in exactly they way you have experienced. It seems to be good that children get different experiences with their parents. In my personal experience, so far, my wife and I are pretty similar on this. We both love to sooth and we both let him struggle sometimes.
“There is more we could do and should do. We are a lazy and over recreated, distracted with telestial and terrestrial pursuits people. Our wives, mothers, and daughters have us beat, es verdad!”
WP #34 - Won’t argue with you there. That is some pretty compelling, albeit anecdotal, evidence. I’m sure my wife is more faithful than I as well. On a related note, why are men so much more likely to be the “theologians” of the family? Elder Maxwell spoke of this as well, i.e. women need to “study” the scriptures more. Why is it that I pour through Isaiah and Revelation etc. looking for the gold nuggets of the gospel, while my wife is content with reading a chapter? (No offense to her, as she soundly whips me in just about every other area! But then again, she is not just a regular woman.) Perhaps we can learn from each other.
“somewhat less prevalent than in the EQ.”
Happy #35 – That is my experience as well. I’m currently in primary, but EQ has been good most of the time, with some good discussion.
There’s a nice comparison of Palin’s speech to Obama’s from a non-screaming liberal perspective by a friend of mine...
ReplyDelete“Contrary to a number of liberal commentators or whatever, I think that having been a mayor of a small town is a kind of compelling qualification for national leadership… But Palin's speech doesn't bother to make the case either way. She mentions being a mayor only to set up two potshots at Obama—that "community organizer" is a made-up and unimportant position, and that Obama is a two-faced elitist.”
Happy and Adam -- If you both are regular attendees of the EQ then you are both in for some serious culture shock when you arrive at the door of the HPG. You may have the exception and I hope you do.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there are many theologians in the HPG. Elder's are more interested perhaps because they are closer to school and the intellectual challenge that it brings to life. HP are too far past it or maybe missed out on college.
Among my friends at the Bntfl. Temple I would say, (after more than five years there), that maybe 10% read and ponder anything besides the Ensign or the 'Work and the Glory' series. I have two friends presently and we are trading lessons, talks, web sites and chat about the latest Nibly publication from FARMS.
I believe Mormons are falling into the faith trumps thought, or earnest intellectual endeavor should be sidelined for simple rote lesson manual study. This is exactly what happened in the medieval age of Islam and why it is so backward and bankrupt today. Christianity on the other hand was able to shake off the dominance of 'faith' and the iron discipline of the Inquisitors to lay the seeds for the reformation and begin the age of scientific discovery. I have taught my boy scouts astronomy and let them see the moons of Jupiter. That sight spurred Galileo Galilei, the father of modern science, to question the Ptolemaic order and that of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
I have spoken with Professor Peterson of BYU and ordered several of their METI Arabic translations of the great Islamic jurist and theologian Muhammad al Ghazali who taught Aristotelian and Platonic philosophy and analysis at the University of Baghdad in the 12th Century. Our Wales ancestors were slopping the hogs, digging for roots, whoring, brewing ale and waging war on the English in 12th Century Adam.
I personally believe we as a Mormon culture and church benefit from our intellectuals who provide us with a 'Dialogue', a Mormon History Association and Sunstone symposia. Otherwise the al Ghazalis (Packers) of our day could stifle inquiry and thought.
Three cheers for intellectuals and historians D. Michael Quinn, Richard Bushman, and the late father of the falasafa, Sterling McMurrin.