Wednesday, November 14
Continuing the Discussion on Pornography...
Recently, there was a great discussion on women, dating and pornography at the Soapbox. The comments soon dropped the women and dating issues and turned into just issues with porn. That discussion has now moved here. If you want to talk about women, dating, and pornography, you can go there. Otherwise, welcome! Feel free to leave your thoughts, whether they be pro, con, neutral, scholarly, annoyed, bemused, or otherwise.
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Hey Adam,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the plug, feel free to move this discussion back to your blog. :)
I think this discussion interests a lot of men, and they enjoy talking about it over the internet where they can voice their opinions with anonymity.
I had no idea the can of worms I was opening with this post!
There are people much more qualified than myself to speak about the evils of pornography, I just figured out the way to make sure you know the porn status of the guy you're dating.
I hope that was ok. I realilze your post about women and dating sort of became a different discussion entirely...
ReplyDeleteI don't understand this anonymity bit- if I call myself the Salty Mess does that make me not anonymous? Or do I need to post my full name, birth date, SSN, etc. so that my comments are valid? Is "Salt H2O" not anonymous?
ReplyDeleteI don't have my own blog, if that's what you're looking for, Salt. I'm just a casual reader of blogs named Jeremy. Who also apparently has a porn addiction by Salt's standards.
salty-for me the anonymity is related to consistency of comments--e.g. next time you comment somewhere I'll know it was the same person. When someone just puts "anonymous", it could be anyone.
ReplyDeleteBut really, could you also leave a fingerprint scan and family history chart next time? : )
What do you think constitutes an addiction in this area? Some people think it shouldn't even be called an addiction--and a "compulsion" is more accurate...
I do believe there is such thing as porn addiction, however I don't think it's nearly as common as some of the women on Salt H2O's site think it is. If I were spending every chance I got looking at porn, if I were searching for it at work, if I thought about porn constantly, it might be an addiction.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned I'm a casual blog reader - well I'm an even more casual porn viewer. I have a playboy subscription, but I definitely spend more time reading it than looking at the pictures. My girlfriend jokes that I get playboy for the articles and National Geographic for the pictures.
Then I get weekly e-mails from page3.com, which goes to an account I check maybe once a month. I'm sure this qualifies as an addiction to many here in Utah, but any viewing of nudity is looked down on here.
I'm not going to say the viewing of nudity (and there really should be a distinction between that and "porn") is healthy, but I think it's unhealthy to repress basic animal instincts like desire.
I have to wonder if the problem Salt H2O and other women have with porn has to do with jealously. If the man they're interested in is being turned on (a basic human instinct) by someone besides them, they can't handle it even if it's just someone in a magazine.
I'm sure jealousy is a part of it. I don't think being jealous is a bad thing in this case, though. Every couple needs to work this issue out for themselves--deciding what works and what doesn't in their relaitionship.
ReplyDeleteI don't think a husband or partner should ever say "well, this is what I like, so too bad if you're jealous and get over it." But if one's spouse doesn't have a problem, then I see your point.
I also don't see anything wrong with controlling or channeling our instincts into things that work for us and our relationships. I don't think avoiding pornography is repression. If that's the case then we all repress our instincts regularly.
I do agree that we tend to toss around the word "addiction" to any behavior we don't like. It lessens the impact of the word when dealing with people who really have a problem.
Dr. Victor Cline, clinical psychologist and prof emeritus at the U of U and BYU, and recognized expert on addictions including porn said for some the addiction to porn is instantaneous, for others it can be years of exposure to become addicted. The addiction to porn is not unlike crack cocaine in that the neurons fire in the same portion of the brain for both types of addicts. When crack heads were allowed to smell an acetone ingredient to crack it was indistinguishable from the porn addicts who viewed a centerfold. Maybe you will read about his work and others on the physiological aspects of addiction.
ReplyDeleteMy experiences as an LDS bishop for nearly six years and the more than few brethren I worked with leads to me believe it is a serious problem in Zion as President Hinckley has suggested and often a remedy is not found without professional intervention in addition to spiritual counseling from a bishop or pastor. For some fathers and husbands it had been going on for multiple decades cycling in and out of the life of a family.
One of the first questions anyone I sent to therapy was asked when they were put on the couch was if they had in their families any siblings or parents who had similar or other types of addictions. Genetics seems to play a roll according to my friends in LDS Family Services.
I believe it is a very dangerous addiction and destroys marriages. I saw that also. As a potential therapist investigating this aspect of human behavior I think it is fraught with dangers as well. We are not alone as a Church as we have had more than a couple crusaders fall into the morass and slime of pornography. I don’t think it is worth the personal risk. The negative consequences are too great.
I have rambled on too many aspects of this but I did have good friends/therapists who educated me as a bishop and I did see the very real and deep pain it brought to spouses and children of porn addicts. I do not even like that word.
Does Cline have any books or articles available? I'm interested in his research now...
ReplyDeleteI'm getting in late on this, but have to throw down my two cents. First of all, what is largely missed by the discussion on Soapbox was that the discussion was only about men and porn. Recent studies are showing that at least one third of all 'net pornography is viewed by women. Even LDS church leadership has recognized this: the semi-annual Don't Participate in Pornography message has immigrated from Priesthood Session to the universally broadcast ones.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think a reason why LDS (and religiously conservative) people may have such problems with pornography viewing is because they are unfulfilled in their own sex lives. Because faithful Mormons are chaste, this would explain the problems with single folk porn viewers, but I also wonder if among the married couples whose marriages are ruined by pornography the problem might be rooted in communication about sexuality. Perhaps a problem is that because of the puritanical code that our country (and religion) was founded on, the idea of even verbalizing about sex and what a partner might desire, how they might be better fulfilled, etc. is seen as dirty and sinful.
Some of the problems relating to pornography in LDS marriages might be alleviated if there would be a more concerted effort to properly teach (the often very young) engaged couples about sex, what might be expected, that the missionary position isn't the only way to go, that it is a beautiful, artistic expression of love, commitement and unity among a couple as well as something that can be physically pleasurable as well.
Utah Billboard along I-15 (near NV/UT border) that seems to sum up the LDS mind set with regards to porn rather spot on, I must say.
ReplyDeleteq
Wow. I officially do not endorse that billboard. I just love instilling fear, don't you? Poor snakes.
ReplyDelete